Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:32] <mwattier> evening all
[1:22] <ajt> mwattier: evening
[1:45] <mwattier> man..
[1:47] <mwattier> this has been the toughest import i've had to do yet.. and it's soooo simple
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[3:04] <gjmacd> all sort of problems with my mac tonight
[3:06] <gjmacd> i'm still not able to get around this problem:
[3:06] <gjmacd> >Please generate a table (with the same name as your manager class) in the database first.<
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[3:58] <MihaVrhovnik> morning
[4:11] <mwattier> morning :)
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[4:40] <wmk> morning
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[5:02] <demianturner> bon matin
[5:02] <wmk> ?? g'morning demianturner
[5:04] <mwattier> morning :)
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[5:15] <vorti2> good morning ...
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[5:18] <Bleupomme> hi
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[5:35] <wmk> hi Bleupomme
[5:35] <wmk> hi andrew_hill btw
[5:37] <wmk> wow, shop module seems to be a real hot topic atm
[5:42] <demianturner> wmk: morning
[5:42] <demianturner> wmk: btw, it occured to me last night conversations that happen on the ML are way more productive than chatter on irc
[5:42] <demianturner> which mostly gets lost
[5:42] <demianturner> and doesn't develop into anything
[5:43] <demianturner> the threads we had in old days on ML were much better, and actually help get things done
[5:43] <wmk> good point
[5:44] <mwattier> me thinks you need to define boundries for what goes where and what will be recognized and what will be disreguarded when not on the proper channel
[5:44] <wmk> well, irc is fine for instant discussions, ML for a wider audience
[5:44] <demianturner> true, but is it realistic to keep enforcing various sets of rules
[5:44] <demianturner> ?
[5:45] <mwattier> does their enforcement contribute or hinder progress
[5:45] <wmk> not even on ML. i don't want to say "learn to quote" all the time
[5:45] <demianturner> we have some folks that have followed this project since the begining, and still don't know seagull CS, right wmk ;-)
[5:45] <wmk> CS?
[5:45] <demianturner> lol
[5:45] <demianturner> CS = coding standards
[5:45] <demianturner> about as often used as BC
[5:45] * wmk tries harder these days
[5:45] <mwattier> or lingo apparently ;)
[5:46] <demianturner> but good point about learning to quote, folks never get that message
[5:46] <demianturner> i think the trick is to get the shakers and movers to move to the ML
[5:46] <demianturner> which is why i'm making this suggestion :-)
[5:46] <wmk> the shakers and movers?!
[5:47] <mwattier> demianturner, i think some of what you seek can be acheived, but not all.. irc is a great medium for "hashing it out"..
[5:50] <demianturner> totally agreed
[5:51] <demianturner> after last month though i've found it massively time-consuming with no great returns
[5:53] <mwattier> yes.. irc can be time consuming.. but then .. so is any communication in a project like this.. be thankful most of it comes in some semblence of order and is reasonably thought out
[5:53] <mwattier> a long time ago, for about 1 year I tried to use a rather cool homegrown support ticket system for communicating with customers and clients
[5:54] <demianturner> hehe
[5:54] <demianturner> yes, i agree, a lot of interesting stuff goes on here
[5:54] <mwattier> it did in fact help streamline my communication
[5:54] <demianturner> even more interesting things i hear about when i'm not here!
[5:54] <mwattier> :)
[5:54] <demianturner> but one would need 24/hrs a day to cover all the communication media associated w/this project
[5:54] <mwattier> yep
[5:55] <mwattier> but every support inquery is a potential customer
[5:55] <demianturner> if you guys pass on to me salient stuff that comes out of these convos, that would be great
[5:55] <demianturner> always the optimist
[5:55] <mwattier> its the truth :)
[5:55] <demianturner> what i notice now is folks who hang out here are getting customers
[5:56] <demianturner> thats kinda interesting, kinda ..
[5:56] <mwattier> yeah.. i feel ya there
[5:56] <mwattier> it's a balancing act
[5:57] <demianturner> i'm an idealist, i just think effort put in should match gains returned
[5:57] <demianturner> it doesn't often work that way
[5:57] <demianturner> which i guess is where constraints have to be put in place
[5:57] <mwattier> you were an art major, not economics ;)
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[5:58] <demianturner> u can say that again
[5:58] <mwattier> economics and politics.. economics is the theory, politics is the implmentation
[5:59] <mwattier> ( politics in the context of how a community governs itself )
[5:59] <demianturner> i dn't have time to chase the outcomes listed in last minutes, maybe one of you guys cuold take a crack at that
[5:59] <demianturner> no response on ML
[6:01] <mwattier> something specific?
[6:02] <demianturner> there's a lot of good ideas there but all seems trivial faced with the imminent server hosting expiry
[6:02] <demianturner> i'd say that's our top priority
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[6:02] <wmk> server hosting expiry?
[6:02] <demianturner> i can put in around ??30/mnth, it's what i pay now
[6:02] <demianturner> mwattier: you mentioned $25 i think
[6:03] <demianturner> if we could locate a good provider, within budget, that would be a huge headstart
[6:03] <mwattier> >imminent server hosting expiry
[6:03] <mwattier> have several months
[6:03] <demianturner> perhaps even contributions from all the eager svn consumers ;-)
[6:03] <mwattier> 6 if i count right
[6:03] <demianturner> i think we need a solution asap
[6:03] <demianturner> it's a lot of stuff to move
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[6:03] <demianturner> morning juliencasanova
[6:04] <mwattier> hmm.. might I suggest a diff tact
[6:04] <juliencasanova> hi demianturner
[6:04] <mwattier> rather than prepare for an expenditure you are not really sure on how to undertake, try spending that energy on cultivating a channel that will pay for it
[6:05] <mwattier> 6 months is a long time
[6:05] <demianturner> well to be honest i have been trying for some years now
[6:05] <mwattier> a server move shouldnt take more than 1 month
[6:05] <demianturner> it hasn't been all that fruitful
[6:05] <mwattier> the shop will attract $$
[6:06] <mwattier> people who are attracted to frameworks and CMS's are not people walking around with their wallets in their hands
[6:06] <demianturner> very good point
[6:06] <mwattier> people who look for shopping carts are looking for 1 reason and 1 reason only.. they have something to sell.. that means money changing hands
[6:07] <demianturner> well my current project will give us much better cms and events
[6:07] <demianturner> next would be great to see shop move forward, at a non-snails pace ;-)
[6:07] <mwattier> great.. knock it out.. let me know when you are 2 weeks from being done with those
[6:07] <demianturner> that will be 2 weeks from now
[6:08] <mwattier> cool..
[6:09] <mwattier> so like May 1st?
[6:09] * demianturner checks
[6:10] <mwattier> may can be "Ecommerce Month" on SGL..
[6:10] <demianturner> i gave you too soon a day, actually middle of may
[6:10] <mwattier> May 15th?
[6:11] <demianturner> sorry, end of project is may 12th, approx
[6:11] <mwattier> k.. here is a suggestion
[6:12] <mwattier> before the shop gets too far out of "official" hands.. schedule a window for all of those interested to submit needs/wants to the RFC or the ML (which can be translated to the RFC) .. then a small group can sort them and come up for the initial *official* shop module..
[6:13] <mwattier> anything after that window ( unless it's earth shatteringly good ) does not get consideration in the first run of the shop
[6:13] <demianturner> a combination of RFC and examination of existing code
[6:14] <demianturner> i know Rares version well, not sure what the varico boys have been up ot
[6:14] <mwattier> well.. I think the best way to go is to make something official.. something concrete to begin with
[6:15] <demianturner> ok, sounds good to me
[6:15] <demianturner> a design driven approach
[6:15] <mwattier> but make it urgent... send an email in active voice.. *this* window is what you have to submit something
[6:15] <demianturner> imagine that!
[6:15] <mwattier> :)
[6:15] <demianturner> ok, noted
[6:16] <mwattier> if we dont do a design driven approach.. it can get messy quick
[6:16] <mwattier> today's ecommerce consumers ( mid-high level ) are quite demanding
[6:16] <vorti2> hi all, i have a problem displaying a inline html editor (tinyFck) in my seagull publisher ...
[6:16] <demianturner> mwattier: ok
[6:17] <demianturner> mwattier: i will add that as a trac ticket
[6:17] <vorti2> no html editor appears ...
[6:20] <vorti2> in the admin configuration there is a "editior type" and some tinyFck code in the seagull dir ...
[6:20] <mwattier> what browser?
[6:22] <vorti2> mwattier: ff 1.5 (linux/win), ie 6...
[6:24] <vorti2> mwattier: is "fckEdit" the right value for "editor type" in config??
[6:25] <wmk> vorti2: of course not
[6:26] <wmk> vorti2: try "tinyfck"
[6:26] <vorti2> wmk: i try ...
[6:27] <vorti2> wmk: it work's!! thx ...
[6:28] <mwattier> you had doubt? when wmk speaks, it is so! ;-)
[6:29] <mwattier> dude.. everyone always schedules backups to run right in the middle of my work time :)
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[6:34] <vorti2> mwattier: backups? who needs that??? ;-)
[6:34] <wmk> mwattier: ;)
[6:36] <mwattier> yeah.. no kidding.. backups are kind of a pain till you need them
[6:37] <mwattier> i'll admit that i've had some of those oh sh*t moments where i deleted something just a little too quickly
[6:37] <mwattier> that whole -f switch is kinda for ever
[7:05] <wmk> anyone here can help me with sql?
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[7:06] <vorti2> wmk: yes, i hope ...
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[8:37] <MihaVrhovnik> guys did any of you seen iceage parody (http://indigen.free.fr/) it's animation, but still don't watch it if you are sensitive to disturbing images
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[9:18] <gjmacd> anyone running PG and the latest build?
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[10:04] <Bleupomme> I have a question. I inherit from RegisterMgr class to make my own register form. It worked well on 0.55 but now in 0.6 I get: Warning: md5() expects parameter 1 to be string, object given in /var/www/probiox/lib/SGL/DB.php on line 190. Does anyone know why?
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[10:15] <demianturner> Bleupomme: remove the arg to setConnection()
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[10:16] <demianturner> and pls add that too wiki under TypicalProblems, it keeps coming up
[10:19] <Bleupomme> demianturner:thx I removed setConnection(). It works now
[10:21] <demianturner> pls update wiki
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[10:26] <Bleupomme> demianturner: don't know how to update wiki . Or was this request not directed at me? :)
[10:28] <demianturner> it was requested at you
[10:28] <demianturner> if you know how to type, you know how to update wikis
[10:29] <Bleupomme> demianturner: ok I just registered to the site ;)
[10:29] <demianturner> ok, login to Trac
[10:32] <juliencasanova> demianturner: waohoo, I just realised GMT was taken into account on my local Windows install
[10:32] <juliencasanova> demianturner: so I guess when you set extended local to true, it works, that's great news
[10:32] <demianturner> wahoo!
[10:32] <demianturner> juliencasanova: i wasn't here for the first part of the convo, i think
[10:33] <demianturner> Bleupomme: you are Manuel?
[10:33] <juliencasanova> demianturner: don't you remember when we tried to fix this GMT locale settings on Win?
[10:34] <demianturner> aha, long time ago
[10:34] <juliencasanova> yeah
[10:34] <Bleupomme> demianturner: yes. Why?
[10:34] <demianturner> you nick sounds very french but your name very spanish
[10:35] <demianturner> juliencasanova: and i like to show off speaking other languages
[10:35] <demianturner> so you're giving us bait here ;-)
[10:35] <Bleupomme> demianturner: I'm from spanish origin. But where born in Luxembourg
[10:35] <demianturner> claro hombre
[10:35] <Bleupomme> were born
[10:35] <Bleupomme> :)
[10:36] <demianturner> was born : -)
[10:36] <juliencasanova> demianturner: what? are you laughing at me ;)
[10:36] <demianturner> we were born
[10:36] <demianturner> juliencasanova: naturellement
[10:36] <juliencasanova> Bleupomme: call him Mr Professor ;)
[10:36] <Bleupomme> ok, sorry I'm not that good in english ;)
[10:36] <demianturner> so Bleupomme, how's your first wiki update going?
[10:38] <Bleupomme> demianturner: not used to it :)
[10:38] <juliencasanova> demianturner: I hate magic; now I lost correct locale time, let's forget about that ;-\
[10:38] <demianturner> aww
[10:39] <demianturner> juliencasanova: sorry dude, i don't have windows so can't compare
[10:39] <juliencasanova> np
[10:41] <Bleupomme> demianturner: have a problem with RegisterMgr word it has been transformed in a link . What information should I put in it?
[10:42] <demianturner> put !RegisterMgr
[10:42] <ajt> Morning guys
[10:42] <demianturner> the ! escapes the word
[10:42] <demianturner> ajt: morning
[10:42] <Bleupomme> ok
[10:42] <ajt> How's everyone doing?
[10:42] <demianturner> good, quite busy, u
[10:43] <ajt> good to hear
[10:43] <ajt> bbiab...time for some breakfast
[10:43] <Bleupomme> demianturner: Is it ok that way?
[10:44] <demianturner> what way?
[10:45] <Bleupomme> demianturner: I mean the article I added. Is it ok? :-$
[10:46] <demianturner> Bleupomme: i'm not psychic, link pls
[10:46] <Bleupomme> demian:http://trac.seagullproject.org/wiki/TroubleShooting/TypicalProblems
[10:47] <demianturner> perfect - thanks dude!
[10:48] <demianturner> i will move it to the top, bottom of that file is older stuff
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[11:17] <ajt> demianturner: Nice to see some life back in DataGrid
[11:17] <demianturner> yeah, they made s ome good improvements
[11:17] <ajt> demianturner: I'm seeing that now
[11:17] <ajt> demianturner: :)
[11:20] <gjmacd> what datagrid?
[11:22] <ajt> gjmacd: Something that's going to make life a lot easier
[11:22] <ajt> http://www.varico.poznan.pl/beta/DataGrid/seagull/www/index.php/tools/DataGrid/action/dataGrid5/
[11:22] <ajt> gjmacd: give that demo a whirl
[11:23] <gjmacd> in there now
[11:23] <ajt> :)
[11:23] <gjmacd> damn straight, check that bitch in!
[11:25] <gjmacd> actually, i'd prefer to get PG working 100% first, but this looks great
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[11:30] <ajt> gjmacd: It's going to make developing 10x easier
[11:30] <ajt> gjmacd: speaking of PG how goes the battle?
[11:30] <gjmacd> not good
[11:35] <ajt> Still having problems w/ the module generator?
[11:36] * mattt (n=matt@d221-72-23.commercial.cgocable.net) has joined #seagull
[11:36] <mattt> hi
[11:37] <demianturner> it's a shame no one submits patches, i'm just making a mass of fixes to module gen. now
[11:37] <demianturner> ajt: can u write a "dangle the carrot" program for us ?
[11:39] <ajt> demianturner: Sure sounds good to me
[11:39] <ajt> demianturner: I'll start on it this weekend
[11:40] <ajt> demianturner: should I base it around paypal?
[11:40] <ajt> mattt: Hi
[11:40] <demianturner> does paypal accept carrots for cash ;-) ?
[11:40] <ajt> hahah :)
[11:44] <ajt> demianturner: I think this has to be done ASAP myself
[11:45] <ajt> demianturner: That one email to Varico not only has gotten SGL_DataGrid up to date it's gotten them to contribute their Shop bugfixes & improvements :D
[11:46] <ajt> Hopefully we can keep the ball rolling on contributions
[11:46] <ajt> gjmacd: This might be of interest to you since you're building an ecommerce app
[11:47] <demianturner> yes, good point about keeping the ball rolling
[11:47] <ajt> demianturner: I got a quote of a lifetime for you. Let me go find it :)
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[11:48] <gjmacd> we're actually building an inventory management and order entry system
[11:48] <gjmacd> but the e-commerce app. is a simple custom framework which works off the same database
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[11:48] <gjmacd> that just uses basic PHP and Smarty, no need to use a big framework
[11:49] <ajt> demianturner: "(15:04:42) miah: I told him he should load up the debugger to figure out what's going on and he went on saying that the debugger will point you towards problems that don't really exist.. which to me means he doesn't know how to use it"
[11:49] <ajt> gjmacd: ahhh
[11:49] <gjmacd> i've been working around issues though
[11:51] <ajt> gjmacd: Well what issues are you working around
[11:51] <ajt> Without know what's wrong it can't be fixed
[11:51] <gjmacd> of course... w
[11:52] <gjmacd> well, the code gen for modules is not right
[11:52] <gjmacd> for PG
[11:52] <gjmacd> does that WHERE 1 thing
[11:52] <gjmacd> got around that by changing the query
[11:52] <gjmacd> now i'm working out why the data is not returned to the template
[11:52] <gjmacd> the return from cmd_list seems to not be working
[11:54] <gjmacd> my lists are empty (data wise) but the count coming back is correct.
[11:54] <gjmacd> its odd
[11:57] <ajt> Interesting
[11:58] <gjmacd> i'm also moving to smarty, i loathe Flexy
[11:58] <gjmacd> so thats been a little painful
[11:58] <ajt> gjmacd: YOu need to this
[11:58] <ajt> all output
[11:58] <ajt> needs to be set to $output
[11:58] <gjmacd> in the code thats generated
[11:58] <ajt> so $output->results = "something"
[11:58] <gjmacd> right
[11:58] <ajt> so what do you mean by "the return from cmd_list seems to not be working"?
[11:59] <gjmacd> well...
[11:59] <gjmacd> if i print_r the $output, it looks fine
[11:59] <ajt> but it doesn't display in the template?
[11:59] <gjmacd> so I'm assuming the call to cmd_list and the use of the data is not getting set properly for the template
[12:00] <ajt> gjmacd: Pretty sure it is :) If you have $output->someVar then you reference it in the template as {someVar}
[12:00] <gjmacd> well, yeah. but i'm not getting any data back. yet the pagination is setup correctly
[12:00] <gjmacd> so it nows the amount of rows
[12:01] <gjmacd> the field names are also not set
[12:01] <gjmacd> field_1, field_2 etc
[12:01] <gjmacd> ;-)
[12:01] <gjmacd> could be a number of things
[12:01] <gjmacd> i'm running php5
[12:01] <ajt> gjmacd: add {t:r} to your template
[12:01] <ajt> it will show you exactly what the template is receiving
[12:01] <gjmacd> what will that do?
[12:01] <gjmacd> ah
[12:01] <gjmacd> sorta like {debug} for smarty
[12:02] <ajt> probably...I've never used smarty
[12:02] <ajt> gjmacd: also don't forget to add :h for when you want to output html
[12:02] <ajt> {someVar:h}
[12:02] <gjmacd> and by the way, in my opinion, flexy should be removed and basic PHP should be used as a template engine. Then if you want Flexy or Smarty or Savant, you turn that on
[12:02] <gjmacd> Flexy is unflexy
[12:03] <gjmacd> looking at Rails
[12:03] <gjmacd> or PHP Cake
[12:03] <gjmacd> they use PHP as the template engine
[12:03] <gjmacd> just one mans opinion
[12:05] <mattt> flexy and db_dataobjects are what attracted me to seagull a year and a half ago
[12:05] <gjmacd> i mean no offense, but flexy is nasty
[12:05] <gjmacd> i think the base should be PHP
[12:05] <gjmacd> and you should be able to plug what template engine you wnat
[12:05] <gjmacd> want
[12:06] <mattt> what do you mean php should be the base?
[12:06] <gjmacd> the templates
[12:06] <gjmacd> should just be HTML pages with PHP in them
[12:06] <mattt> so inline html+php?
[12:06] <gjmacd> yep
[12:06] <mattt> ikes
[12:06] <gjmacd> why not?
[12:06] <gjmacd> hahahah
[12:06] <gjmacd> dude think about it
[12:06] <gjmacd> i'm not saying DONT use flexy
[12:07] <gjmacd> i'm saying the base should be PHP so I don't have to learn Flexy
[12:07] <gjmacd> i'd rather say "hey, i know PHP ... use that."
[12:07] <demianturner> gjmacd: we have a page that is targetted just for you in the wiki
[12:07] <demianturner> http://trac.seagullproject.org/wiki/Standards/DevelopmentProcess
[12:08] <demianturner> i even added a personalised section on when you should use PHP for templates - check it out :-)
[12:08] <gjmacd> cool
[12:09] <gjmacd> i'm not complaining... i'm just saying "damn, this flexy crap, what is this..." know what i mean, sure, its easy, but one should assume that everyone using Seagull knows PHP -- not everyone knows Flexy, Gabish?
[12:09] <demianturner> read on brutha
[12:09] <gjmacd> and by the way, this framework KICKS ASS. I'm not complaining. Just throwing my penny out there.
[12:11] <gjmacd> out of curiousity...
[12:11] <gjmacd> don't use PHP for buildingn templates unless
[12:11] <gjmacd> * you're a mom & pop shop and do everything in the app yourself
[12:11] <gjmacd> * you know your front end devs intimately and trust them with your reputation
[12:11] <gjmacd> * it's just you and your mate developing, and it's only a personal homepage so doesn't need to be scalable, nor will outside frontend devs ever be used
[12:11] <gjmacd> why not?
[12:11] <ajt> gjmacd: I would never in my life give my designer the ability to access native php functions
[12:11] <ajt> gjmacd: for the simple fact they can bring your app down in .0000001 nanoseconds
[12:11] <gjmacd> oh sure, I agree 100%
[12:12] <gjmacd> i guess i'm looking at this from the "I maintain this" perspective
[12:12] <gjmacd> i agree with the requirements
[12:12] <ajt> Or they'll do something in the templates that should be done in a module
[12:12] <gjmacd> but want to know somethign?
[12:12] <gjmacd> I have over 100 customers
[12:12] <gjmacd> all deployed with Smarty
[12:12] <gjmacd> which is easy
[12:12] <gjmacd> they still f*ck it up
[12:13] <gjmacd> at the end of the day, we end up fixing iy
[12:13] <ajt> right but imagine if it was PHP instead of smarty
[12:13] <gjmacd> i
[12:13] <ajt> they'd really fsck it up
[12:13] <gjmacd> you know, i used to think that
[12:13] <gjmacd> but i think people can find PHP resources easier than trying to resolve a Flexy issue
[12:13] <gjmacd> think about it
[12:13] <gjmacd> a for loop
[12:13] <gjmacd> in PHP
[12:13] <gjmacd> vs.
[12:13] <gjmacd> Flexy
[12:13] <gjmacd> whats going to make sense to a web designer ?
[12:14] <gjmacd> however, i think the real problem is PHP editing can hammer everything at the application level
[12:14] <gjmacd> if you were having them edit modules, HELL NO
[12:14] <gjmacd> but this is template stuff
[12:14] <gjmacd> with HTML
[12:14] <gjmacd> there are 900 books at Barnes and Noble about PHP
[12:15] <gjmacd> how many about Flexy or Smarty?
[12:15] <ajt> and not 1 about flexy or smarty
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[12:15] <gjmacd> right
[12:15] <ajt> Hi Werner
[12:15] <gjmacd> i think most people (who are our customers) are complete morons.
[12:15] <gjmacd> but...
[12:15] <gjmacd> if you said to them "you need to know PHP to edit the templates".
[12:15] <gjmacd> its probably going to be easier for them to get training
[12:16] <gjmacd> now, I'm not saying PHP is easier
[12:16] <gjmacd> i'm just saying its more prevalent.
[12:16] <gjmacd> "easier to be educated"
[12:16] <gjmacd> I'm a big proponent of templating
[12:16] <gjmacd> our product uses it
[12:17] <gjmacd> but in a framework... i guess I see it as a "nuts and bolts". And the people building the box should be able to choose.
[12:17] <gjmacd> thats all
[12:18] <gjmacd> a friction point to me would be "ok, whats this flexy thing doing...". vs. going "ah, i understand that php thing, I can do that."
[12:18] <gjmacd> if you look at railes
[12:18] <gjmacd> rails
[12:18] <gjmacd> (god forbid i mention that)
[12:18] <gjmacd> their templates use Ruby in them
[12:19] <mattt> whats the best way to use a different master.html for my homepage?
[12:19] <mattt> I have some flash in there that I dont want to be loaded each time
[12:19] <mattt> its a static html article
[12:19] <ajt> mattt: in DefaultMgr set $this->masterTemplate = 'matttMasterTemplate.html';
[12:19] <ajt> mattt: in that case
[12:20] <mattt> ajt: will that change it for all pages?
[12:20] <mattt> or just my default/default?
[12:20] <ajt> mattt: just default/default
[12:20] <gjmacd> but i digress. Sorry.
[12:20] <gjmacd> ;-)
[12:20] <mattt> perfect
[12:20] <mattt> thanks :)
[12:20] <ajt> gjmacd: It's great to hear peoples point of views
[12:21] <gjmacd> hey, i'm not complaining... just throwing some thoughts out there
[12:21] <gjmacd> at the end of the day, its a minor thing
[12:21] <gjmacd> very minor
[12:23] <gjmacd> i think its more important to have a stable release
[12:23] <ajt> exactly
[12:24] <ajt> gjmacd: which brings us back to the original question :) What problems are you having w/ PG?
[12:24] <gjmacd> yeah, hahahaha
[12:24] <gjmacd> we should resolve that
[12:24] <ajt> Yeah I'd like to not have problems w/ PG so I can make the switch from mysql
[12:24] <ajt> but honestly we need to find a way to maintain all schemas painlessly
[12:25] <ajt> mdb2_schema looks like an option
[12:25] * ajt loves php5 objects, practices, & patterns
[12:25] <mattt> I'd like to see an sqlite version ;)
[12:25] <ajt> mattt: You up for being the maintainer?
[12:25] <mattt> no problem
[12:25] <mattt> should be done right after lunch
[12:26] <mattt> ....
[12:26] <ajt> mattt: I take that as a yes?
[12:27] <mattt> I'm still running php 4 on freebsd 4
[12:27] <mattt> I'm a bit behind
[12:27] <mattt> and untill last week I was still running seagull 4
[12:28] <mattt> activity on mdb2_schema right now
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[12:30] <wmk> hi ajt
[12:31] <mattt> boo pear install --alldeps http://pear.php.net/get/MDB2_Schema-0.4.3.tgz doesnt grab any drivers...
[12:34] <demianturner> youhave to grab them manually
[12:34] <demianturner> see pear mdb2 page for info
[12:34] <mattt> yeah
[12:34] * sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136.pool8836.interbusiness.it) has joined #seagull
[12:35] <mattt> I gottem installed
[12:35] <sbaturzio> Aloha!
[12:35] <mattt> nothing came out in my dump
[12:35] <mattt> weird
[12:36] <mattt> has anyone tried the example in mdb2_schema?
[12:36] <gjmacd> honestly, if you're using PearDB, it should be ignostic.
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[12:42] <ajt> gjmacd: MDB2_Schema uses MDB2 which succeeds DB
[12:42] <ajt> mattt: Not yet I just got the test suite setup and running myself
[12:44] <gjmacd> but you'd never deploy with MDB2, right?
[12:47] <mattt> ajt: this may be of interest -> http://pooteeweet.org/blog/312
[12:47] <mattt> the post at the bottom
[12:47] <ajt> ugh oh
[12:47] <ajt> :)
[12:48] <ajt> mattt: Did you post that?
[12:48] <mattt> negative
[12:48] <mattt> ;)
[12:49] <ajt> mattt: that's awesome
[12:50] <ajt> mattt: Now if we can put it to use in seagull so we can auto generate schemas based of the mysql schema
[12:50] <mattt> yeah
[12:50] <mattt> looks decent enough
[12:51] <mattt> why not just ship one xml schema?
[12:51] <mattt> and convert during install?
[12:51] <ajt> mattt: No foreign key support
[12:51] <mattt> ohh
[12:51] <mattt> that sucks
[12:51] <ajt> that's the only thing stopping us really
[12:51] <ajt> mattt: you got some free time?
[12:51] <mattt> hrm
[12:52] <mattt> a few minutes yeah
[12:52] <mattt> I'm just playing with the converter
[12:52] <ajt> mattt: I was going to say there's a wiki page about adding foreign key support if you want to.
[12:52] <mattt> no pgsql support in my dev box php atm
[12:52] <mattt> recompile...
[12:53] <demianturner> mattt: it's not a big deal to get php to support pg, i did it the other day
[12:53] <demianturner> just to play around with mdb2_schema ;-)
[12:53] <mattt> yeah
[12:53] <demianturner> i didn't get any further than you though
[12:53] <mattt> I usually build it
[12:53] <mattt> I used to use pg for everything
[12:53] <demianturner> nice
[12:53] <mattt> because of the spacial extensions
[12:54] <mattt> but then you guys seemed to let it lag so I moved to mysql
[12:54] <demianturner> you may be the man to shine the light of cross-db-compatibility on the project ;-)
[12:54] <mattt> I'm not sure how much need there is really for pg
[12:54] <demianturner> a big need
[12:54] <mattt> its not supported in a lot of hosting environments yet
[12:54] <demianturner> more serious devs, myself, ajt, sbaturzio, and a number of others, all wish it would work
[12:55] <mattt> how come?
[12:55] <demianturner> well i also need it for postGIS, like you mentioned
[12:55] <mattt> :)
[12:56] <demianturner> and any decent tx, view and stored proc support, it has to be pgsql
[12:56] <demianturner> mysql still barely even noticed FKs - just ask sbaturzio ;-)
[12:56] <mattt> I guess my sites are usually 1->150 users without many bells or whistles
[12:56] <mattt> not much writing going on so mysql is plenty to support them
[12:57] <mattt> I'm thinking of going sqlite actually
[12:57] <demianturner> yeah, would be sensible
[12:57] <mattt> for mostly static single user sites
[12:57] <demianturner> so long as you don't mind the whole db locking on inserts
[12:58] <mattt> demianturner: nope, I'm thinking for basic sites that could be html save the odd change every couple of weeks
[12:58] <mattt> saves on hosting to use a flat file
[13:01] <demianturner> true
[13:03] <ajt> grrrrrrrrrrrr
[13:03] <ajt> sometime ti really boggles my mind on why something isn't working
[13:03] <Bleupomme> bye
[13:03] * Bleupomme (n=manu@ip-83-99-10-212.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu) has left #seagull
[13:04] <gjmacd> PG is a must... MySQL is just not going to hack it for ACID required projects
[13:06] <gjmacd> in the wiki, when i look at code, whats the right way to copy into the clipboard without getting all the line numbers? (dumb question, I know)
[13:06] <gjmacd> actually, the trac, not the wiki
[13:06] <gjmacd> sorry
[13:07] <ajt> gjmacd: at the bottom there's a link for plain text
[13:07] <gjmacd> hmm
[13:07] <gjmacd> really?
[13:07] <gjmacd> lemme check
[13:07] <gjmacd> ah
[13:07] <gjmacd> thanks
[13:07] <gjmacd> missed that
[13:10] <ajt> :)
[13:12] <ajt> I hate when I break shit
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[13:20] <gjmacd> where is the default header.html template?
[13:21] <gjmacd> in /modules/default/templates?
[13:21] * andrew_hill (n=andrew_h@81-179-9-150.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Leaving")
[13:21] <gjmacd> or /www/themes/....
[13:22] <gjmacd> trying to move to smarty
[13:22] <gjmacd> and get those templates running
[13:23] <gjmacd> getting this: Fatal error: Smarty error: [in default/header.html line 9]: syntax error: unrecognized tag 'charset' (Smarty_Compiler.class.php, line 580) in
[13:23] <ajt> gjmacd: Smatry templates are in www and all flexy templates are in modules/modulename/template
[13:24] <gjmacd> right, but you move them into the default/templates when you want to use them, right? or do they use them from the smarty foler?
[13:24] <gjmacd> folder?
[13:24] <gjmacd> under www/themes/smarty/ ...
[13:25] <ajt> gjmacd: If you select the theme smarty theme it will use www/themes/smarty
[13:26] <gjmacd> ah
[13:26] <gjmacd> that was confusing
[13:26] <ajt> gjmacd: You know that's a lot of templates to convert
[13:26] <ajt> gjmacd: please do convert them tho :)
[13:26] <ajt> gjmacd: it's being asked for more & more
[13:26] <gjmacd> there's some bugs
[13:26] <gjmacd> smarty issues
[13:26] <gjmacd> maybe i could help with the smarty stuff
[13:26] <ajt> gjmacd: Check trac and if there isn't a ticket will you please add one
[13:26] <ajt> It's be really cool if you added a patch when you added a ticket :)
[13:32] <gjmacd> ummm... has ANYONE tried smarty?
[13:32] <gjmacd> or am i like the first person?
[13:35] <ajt> no
[13:35] <ajt> there are others
[13:37] <mattt> hrm
[13:37] <mattt> mdb2 doesnt want to connect
[13:38] <ajt> mattt: You trying to use MDB2 w/ seagull or standalone?
[13:39] <mattt> standalone
[13:39] <mattt> its the example script that comes with mdb2_schema
[13:41] <ajt> ahhh
[13:41] <mattt> hrm
[13:41] <mattt> show tables isnt showing anything
[13:41] <ajt> so you can't connect?
[13:41] <mattt> [connection] => 0
[13:42] <mattt> doent look like it
[13:42] <ajt> mattt: is there a url to the example you're using?
[13:42] <ajt> mattt: is it in the MDB2 wiki?
[13:42] <mattt> must be my dsn
[13:43] <gjmacd> ajt: ok, i've cleaned up some of these smarty templates
[13:44] <ajt> gjmacd: awesome, did you submit a patch
[13:44] <gjmacd> hahaha. How on earth do i do that?
[13:44] <gjmacd> i also need to do all the damn admin_ pages, those seem to be missing
[13:44] <ajt> http://trac.seagullproject.org/wiki/Code/SubmittingPatches
[13:44] <ajt> gjmacd: Everything is missing for smarty templates
[13:45] <ajt> gjmacd: the driver was integrated an a small handful of templates
[13:45] <gjmacd> well, i'll do them
[13:45] <mattt> haha
[13:45] <mattt> there was nothing in my seagull db
[13:45] <mattt> no wonder
[13:45] <gjmacd> its fairly easy if you use Demian's converter
[13:45] <ajt> gjmacd: make sure you do svn add filename.html for all the new files before doing the svn diff command
[13:45] <gjmacd> then you need to hand edit them
[13:45] <gjmacd> clean them up
[13:46] <ajt> gjmacd: cool, btw there should be no differences in how data is displayed between flexy and smarty if possible
[13:46] <gjmacd> yeah, looks right to me
[13:46] <gjmacd> ;-)
[13:46] <gjmacd> i'll convert the admin ones
[13:46] <ajt> gjmacd: thanks 10x
[13:47] <gjmacd> then you can show me how to submit a patch
[13:48] <mattt> whamo
[13:49] <mattt> this looks like it could work for db portability
[13:51] <ajt> mattt: you willing to give implementing foreign keys a whirl?
[13:52] <ajt> mattt: it will work for db protability but we need need foreign key support
[13:52] <ajt> mattt: http://oss.backendmedia.com/MDB2/ForeignKeys
[13:53] <ajt> mattt: next thing MDB2 needs is PDO support :)
[13:53] <ajt> but that's another story
[13:53] <mattt> hrm
[13:54] <ajt> mattt: I was going to do it myself but haven't found time
[13:57] <mattt> ajt: I dont think I have the skills or time to work on MDB2_Schema...
[14:00] <ajt> :( ok. I had to at least ask
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[14:04] <mattt> hrm
[14:04] <mattt> doesnt want to work on sqlite
[14:04] <mattt> says it worked but theres nothing in there
[14:14] <ajt> nice
[14:26] <mattt> kinda
[14:27] <ajt> I was being sarcastic
[14:27] <ajt> :)
[14:28] <demianturner> just added a bit of a shocking new feature to mtce :-)
[14:29] <demianturner> almost an easter egg, how fitting
[14:29] * ajt wonders off to th timeline
[14:29] <ajt> demianturner: hehe :0
[14:29] <ajt> cool
[14:30] <demianturner> cya dudes
[14:31] <ajt> demianturner: peace
[14:31] <ajt> demianturner: have a good night
[14:31] <ajt> demianturner: is it PHPLondon tonight?
[14:31] <ajt> if so drink a pint for me
[14:36] <ajt> I love the abstract factory pattern more and more :)
[14:40] <mattt> except when this happens: Warning: factory(MDB2/Driver/pqsql.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /usr/local/lib/php/MDB2.php on line 330
[14:41] <mattt> the driver file is there too
[14:41] <mattt> I dont know whats up
[14:45] <ajt> Does your include path have the proper dirs?
[14:46] <mattt> Warning: factory(): Failed opening 'MDB2/Driver/pqsql.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') in /usr/local/lib/php/MDB2.php on line 330
[14:47] <mattt> pgsql.php is in /usr/local/lib/php/MDB2/Driver
[14:47] <mattt> er
[14:47] <mattt> wtf
[14:47] <mattt> why is my postgre driver called pgsql and its looking for pqsql.php
[14:48] <ajt> mattt: you can point the gripe at lukas smith :)
[14:49] <mattt> weird
[14:49] <ajt> mattt: aka lsmith
[14:49] <mattt> blarg
[14:49] <mattt> symlink didnt do it
[14:49] <mattt> its looking for a class of the same name now
[14:50] <mattt> abstract factory pattern eh?
[14:51] <mattt> I must be missing something
[14:51] <mattt> there is no way pgsql support doesnt work with mdb2
[14:51] <ajt> mattt: it works
[14:51] <ajt> mattt: put your script in a pastebin
[14:51] <ajt> I'll tak a look in a minute
[14:52] <mattt> yeah I fixed my dsn
[14:52] <mattt> everybody just relax....
[14:52] <mattt> haha
[14:54] <mattt> if you dump sql it looks like constraints are there
[14:55] <mattt> so you can always create the schema.pgsql.sql from a mysql install
[14:56] <ajt> mattt: yes constraints are there but no foreign keys
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[14:57] <mattt> oh right
[14:57] <mattt> it was the FK
[15:07] <ajt> Man this search module is amazingly gorgeous
[15:20] <wmk> re
[15:24] <juliencasanova> cu later :)
[15:37] <ajt> juliencasanova: peace
[15:43] <vorti2> bye ...
[15:44] <wmk> cu vorti2
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[20:00] -lilo- [Global Notice] Hi all. We're experiencing serious problems with connectivity to our European hub. Investigating now.
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[20:10] -lilo- [Global Notice] Hi all. We momentarily lost our connection between our European and US hubs. We're told there are reports of ssh and http connection problems, so this may have been a large backbone glitch. If you have any information, please let us know; we're looking into it.
[20:10] -lilo- [Global Notice] Everything seems back to normal. Thanks for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
[20:17] -lilo- [Global Notice] Hi all. Looking at http://www.internetpulse.net/ (internet pulse), it does look as if there were fairly widespread problems. So far things seem to be stable. Thanks again for your patience, and for using freenode!
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[20:48] <aalexand> hi there
[20:50] <ajt> hi
[20:54] <aalexand> how can i get the uid from a module method?
[20:54] <aalexand> is there a standart link to the SGL_Session instance?
[20:57] <ajt> aalexand: the api.seagullproject.org
[20:57] <ajt> has a good list of available methods
[20:58] <ajt> But you want the current user id? or the id of the current module?
[20:58] <aalexand> yeah, i found getUid, which is fine, but i don't know how to get access to the singleton of SGL_HTTP_Session
[20:59] <ajt> $oSession = SGL_HTTP_Session::singleton();
[20:59] <ajt> IIRC getUid is a static function
[20:59] <ajt> so you would do $uid = SGL_HTTP_Session::getUid();
[21:00] <aalexand> $oSession doesn't have a singleton...
[21:00] <aalexand> is the method inherited?
[21:01] <aalexand> it's not static according to the api :)
[21:01] <aalexand> but it could be a forgotten comment
[21:05] <ajt> give me a second
[21:08] <aalexand> strange, SGL_HTTP_Session::staticMethod fails, i thought the class is being included sometime before by the setup tasks ...
[21:08] <ajt> it's SGL_Session in 0.6.0rc1
[21:09] <ajt> yeah do SGL_Session::getUid();
[21:09] <ajt> It's the same as doing SGL_Session::get('uid');
[21:10] <ajt> aalexand: those should be updated to specify that they are indeed static methods
[21:10] <aalexand> i should have checked the haddisc stuff too :)
[21:10] <ajt> :)
[21:18] <aalexand> can i modify a dataObject, so that a replace query is being processed on insert?
[21:20] <aalexand> i guess no, there isn't a replace query in dataObject.php
[21:46] <aalexand> there is a bug in the SefStrategy!
[21:48] <aalexand> the 222-228 lines are impossible to reach - if a scalar (one-dim) array is passsed in aArray the 213 line check is_array(end($aList)) fails!
[22:03] <ajt> aalexand: can you add a ticket to trac
[22:03] <aalexand> yup
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